Leaving Jesus, Rejecting Islam

I’m surprised that I’m even bringing this up but recent things I’ve watched have irritated me to the point where I want to start attacking it.

It’s come to my attention that when a person leaves Jesus as messiah or even as any sort of important person, one doesn’t only reject christianity. On so many levels, that person also rejects Islam.

You see Islam, or at least Muslims, makes many of the same mistakes as christianity. Not only do Muslims accept Jesus as messiah and prophet, which invalidates their approach, they also attempt to use the Jewish Bible to both prove that Jesus is the messiah and also to show that Muhammed (I spell that various ways, I don’t care about how it’s spelt) is a prophet.

You wanna know the funny thing? They will also use the Jewish Bible to prove that it, the Jewish Bible, is corrupt. *chuckle*

Anyway, aside from that foolishness, once you comprehend the problem of Islam in its acceptance of Jesus and the muslim’s desire to use the Jewish Bible to prove their case, then you’ll also see the abject folly in their approach, a folly that they share with their christian brethren. What is this folly?

You see, when it comes to the Jewish Bible, the muslims and christians come at it as strangers. The muslims, generally, are not native Hebrew speakers. Although there are some similarities between Hebrew and Arabic, the muslims were not the ones, the nation, given the Torah at the beginning. And when they use the Jewish prophets, they, like their christian brethren, use them as usurpers and thieves, appropriating these Jewish or Israelite voices for their own religions. And then, with the arrogance of believing that their respective prophets and teachers have given them authority, they will then turn to the Jews, those Jews that actually continue to adhere to their covenant responsibilities, those Jews that have retained the tradition, history and heritage of Torah, these novice thieving strangers will turn to those Jews and then try to teach them their own book as if they know the proper way it should be understood. And all this is based on the arrogance given them by their founders, be it Jesus, Paul or Muhammed. These illegitimate children, these bastards, will steal the heritage of the Jews, abuse it as they will, and then turn to the legitimate children and condemn them as outcasts for not believing in their chosen prophet or teacher.

And this arrogance, this impudence – even though there are well-mannered nicely spoken, even genuinely nice people in their ranks – this attitude and teaching over-spills to those who have rejected Jesus. Watching debates between muslims and christians, you repeatedly hear them try spin Jewish Bible their own way. The muslim will keep referring to Deuteronomy 18 and places in Isaiah to say that the Jewish Bible prophesies about Mohammad. And the illogical, mistranslating and taking-out-of-context approach is evident in both groups of people.

Now despite the fact that I love some of the rationality of the muslims in trashing christian idolatry, and I respect the muslim resolve in actually sticking to their standards rather than trying to make it seem nice to modern secular society – something that it sickens me to see Jews, christians, and Torah observant Gentiles do – the way they distort the Jewish Bible irritates me just as much as when christians do.

So I hope to be doing a few articles where I show that deceptive ways the muslims misuse the Jewish Bible to push their agenda. If I forget, I hope someone reminds me, but I think it’s irritated me enough to say something. Also, I notice the dearth (wow, I don’t use that word at all – it must be because I’ve been listening to Jeremiah) in Torah-observant voices speaking out against islam. I just want there to be another source somewhere that highlights the ways in which islam and muslims are not the truth and cause people to go astray, at least with regards to the Jewish Bible.

Thanks for your time.

Advertisements

About hesedyahu

I'm a gentile living in UK, a person who has chosen to take upon himself the responsibility God has given to all gentiles. God is the greatest aspect of my life and He has blessed me with a family. I used to be a christian, but I learnt the errors of my ways. I love music. I love to play it on the instruments I can play, I love to close my eyes and feel the groove of it. I wrote my songs when I was single and not so happy and since I've been married, I haven't written as much. I guess that shows how happy and blessed I am. What else is there?
Image | This entry was posted in General and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.

22 Responses to Leaving Jesus, Rejecting Islam

  1. It’s a common formula for cults- false prophet Muhammad, false apostle Paul, false teacher Joseph Smith…… one “special man” with his “special writings” who is above the law because he writes his own new law, with himself at the center. He contradicts the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and Jesus in the Gospels. He gives himself a special title and special authority. He can’t be questioned, he must be right, and must be obeyed and honored – otherwise you are heretic and must be punished. He doesn’t need a second witness, because “god is his witness” – he says. Only he had the “complete revelation” and only his words are the final authority about God, who Jesus was, what Jesus did, and what Jesus taught. He is accountable to no one, but everyone else around him is accountable to him…. Muhammad, Paul, Joseph Smith all fit that profile. They are false prophets.

    Jesus of the Gospels can speak for Himself, (without Muhammad or Paul interpreting.) Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, not abolish them.

    • hesedyahu says:

      The Jesus of the gospels didn’t speak for himself. Self-willed writers with no authority wrote what they thought about him. And what they wrote about him contradicted Torah, the Prophets and the Writings. So I guess that makes him worse that Mo, and the conman who convinced you he was a Pharisee.

      • Jesus didn’t WRITE Scripture for Himself, and neither did Yahweh. God had men write for Him, speaking His words through the Patriarchs, Moses and other Prophets, and through His Son Yeshua (Jesus). There is harmony, and consistency in God’s voice although He reveals Himself progressively over time more and more, just as in any personal relationship.

        We should listen to the voice of God, recorded in The Law, The Prophets, and The Gospels, and seek to obey God. We should not idolize our own version of “our Bible” and think that every word in “our book” is “the command of God.” Song of Solomon is not about God – it is tasteful but erotic love poetry, written by a carnal idolater who was tempted by 1000 women and fell away from following God. It’s Peter Gabriel’s “Sledgehammer” set to harp music.

        We need to evaluate any writings that came later, from Muhammad or Paul etc. in light of the voice of God in the Law, Prophets and Gospels- not just accept some other man’s testimony about himself and teachings simply because he said so.

      • hesedyahu says:

        Ah, so now you can remove books from the Jewish Bible as well as add them. And you can state authoritatively and absolutely why wrote Song of Songs and why. So now you have time traveling abilities and psychic ones as well? No, I think arrogance is a more likely explanation.

        OK, so now Jesus IS God, right? The incorporeal entity didn’t write for himself, so the being of flesh also didn’t. Was I mistaken for thinking you weren’t an idolator if you equate Jesus and God? God is the source of scripture (using the dictionary definition of scripture, not your one which makes any writing, even a lewd scribble on a public toilet “scripture”). He makes it holy. Jesus cannot make a writing into scripture simply because some unknown individual wrote what they thought of him with no divine authorisation.

        Again, the facts are that self-willed anonymous individuals with no divine authority wrote what they thought about Jesus.

        Look, I’ve given you and your preachings enough of my valuable time. I would ask that you stop this. Your arguments haven’t got any weight to them and won’t move me. My arguments will not move you. And I’m not going to take part in this pointless debate. So as of now, I’m stopping.

      • …..”now you can remove books from the Jewish Bible as well as add them….”

        No, I leave them where they are – but you have taken a new word- term- idea that doesn’t appear in the Torah, Nabi’im or Kethuvim, and made it into a god – “The Bible” – as you define it to be, ‘The Jewish Bible.” After listening to Paul for so long, his false idea that “all scripture is god-breathed” is probably still in your subconscious – but now for you, “Scripture” equals “The Jewish Bible” instead of “The Christian Bible.”

        I’ve pointed out that Esther and Song of Songs (Solomon) really have nothing to do with God, and you’ve dodged the issue. I don’t say they should be “removed from the Bible” – they have some value. But they are NOT the word of God, they don’t claim to be the word of God, and they should not be treated as the word of God. Torah is more important and authoritative, obviously.

        Do you agree with Yeshua (Jesus) that The Shema is the Most Important Commandment?
        Deuteronomy 6:4-5. That is what Jesus taught. (see Matthew chapter 22, and Mark chapter 12). Jesus disagreed with Paul on that – and many other things too.

  2. searchinmyroots says:

    “Jesus didn’t WRITE Scripture for Himself, and neither did Yahweh. God had men write for Him, speaking His words through the Patriarchs, Moses and other Prophets, and through His Son Yeshua (Jesus).”

    That’s funny because according to my bible it does say that G-d wrote the 10 statements and gave them to Moses. Jesus was human (or half human or whatever you want to label it as) so he most certainly could have written anything he wanted to.

    Your last line above says “God had men write for Him, speaking His words through the Patriarchs, Moses and other Prophets, and through His Son Yeshua (Jesus).”

    If you’ll notice, all of those who “spoke” for Him, also “wrote” for Him. Jesus may have spoke for Him as you believe (we certainly don’t) but he did not write for Him.

    The Torah or 5 Books of Moses is our mainstay. Everything written by the prophets or in the writings just confirm what was given earlier. Nothing was changed as the Christian bible does.

    • searchinmyroots,
      Yahweh wrote the 10 commandments – and only the 10 commandments – on stone (not paper) and gave them to Moses – who then smashed the stone God wrote on. It’s debatable who physically wrote the 10 commandments out the second time, God or Moses. God disciplined Moses for his sin by making Moses carve out new stone tablets, that is clear. And this one possible exception doesn’t negate the obvious fact that everything else in the Torah, Nabi’im and Kethuvim was recorded by men, as God spoke.

      Yeshua, as God, spoke, and men recorded it. Jesus was not simply “a prophet” speaking for God, He is the Son of God Himself, speaking for the Father- the “prophet like Moses” who would break a 400 year famine of prophecy like Moses did…..

      Do you acknowledge that Chronicles is part of the Kethuvim, not Nabi’im, because it is less reliable and less authoritative than Samuel and Kings, which overlap? (As you may know, these books originally were not divided in two….)

  3. searchinmyroots says:

    Hmmmm, so G-d spoke to Moses on the mountain for 40 days and nights, then Moses along with others wrote everything down.

    Jesus supposedly spoke to people and no one wrote it down until decades later. As a matter of fact, if I am correct, the books of Paul were written before the Gospels and Paul never even met Jesus in person.

    • searchinmyroots
      How do you “know” what you just wrote? You don’t.
      You don’t know that no one wrote anything down until decades later. There no good reason in the world to believe that.

      If you start looking through Gospel of Matthew for example, you can see the beginning of Jesus ministry, which lasted over 3 years. He touched the lives of thousands of people, with miraculous signs and wonders and teachings. Yes many of them were illiterate – but not all. There were some who clearly knew how to write.

      Jesus healed the paralyzed servant of a Roman Centurion- (in charge of 100 men). You think he was illiterate? [Matthew chapter 8]

      Jesus raised from the dead the daughter of a synagogue ruler [Matthew chapter 9]. You think he couldn’t read and write? “News of this spread through all that region.” 9:26
      You think he never wrote anything down for decades? It doesn’t say it only spread by word of mouth, and no one wrote down anything.

      Paul the false self-appointed apostle wrote some letters- speaking on his own, his own ideas, off the top of his head, justifying himself and promoting himself. Those were easy to write, and would not take much time to write.

      The 4 Gospels, in their current, complete, finished form, may not have been finalized until decades later- but that doesn’t mean nothing was written down. They were not simply one man’s letters filled with his own false teaching and boastful false autobiography, like Paul’s letters were. The 4 Gospels were biographies, about Jesus, recording an documenting His life and teachings.. Jesus is the star of the Gospels- not the authors.

      • searchinmyroots says:

        And with all of that said, none of this is written anywhere outside of the Christian bible.

  4. Mozer G. says:

    if im not mistaking, in the quoran jesus is described as a prophet not as messiah, in fact i think its a big disagreement between muslim scholars throughout the ages if such a concept as messiah even exist (i might be wrong). besides for that as you pointed out the muslims do share a common monothiesm with judaism. i dont think accepting jesus without paul is a problem. maybe it is uneducated because he was never really an accepted prophet in the jewish nation, but i dont understand why that makes a difference to the truth of islam (that i dont believe in, but as a faith system it makes a whole lot more sense than chritianity). also you cannot compare their misuse of the bible, the quoran is not based on the bible the way the NT is, the quoran just borrows and changes ideas and details, whereas the NT litterally molests the bible by distortion and mistranlstion. whatever.

    • hesedyahu says:

      If a person makes a claim about what a biblical text means, regardless of their background or religion, that claim can be inspected and, if possible, challenged. Muslims I’ve seen make certain claims that the Jewish Bible prophecies about their prophet. So, even if their mistakes are not as bad as those of the christians, I can still highlight those false interpretations of the Jewish Bible.

      • Dear hesedyahu
        It sounds like you are willing to open up a “Bible” and see what is written there, by whom, quoting whom. Great ! Maybe you can here this….

        The message of The 11 (“The narrow gate”)

        “The eleven disciples went to Galilee”
        “Where Jesus had told them to go”
        They heard His voice and obeyed His will
        Despite uncertainty down below

        Jesus spoke to them at length
        He wasn’t really a Tweeter
        Only 3 of them wrote Scripture
        Matthew John and Peter

        “Feed my sheep” said Jesus, for though
        “Heaven and earth will pass away”
        I have the words of eternal life and
        “My words will never pass away”

        “Enter through the narrow gate”
        The voice of Jesus through the eleven
        Believe in Jesus “through their message”
        And “eat from the tree of life” in heaven

        Jesus commissioned the eleven
        With “everything I have commanded you”
        “Teaching THEM to obey” Jesus
        And “THEM” means me and you !

        “The command given by our Lord and Savior”
        Is not a Pharisee speaking alone
        It came rather “through your apostles”
        Matthew Peter and John

        If a Pharisee boasts proudly
        Those men added nothing to my message
        He doesn’t speak for Jesus
        His words are nothing more than garbage

        Bibliography
        All “quotes” in “quotation marks” are from the writings of the Apostles Matthew John and Peter in the Bible, mostly the “Red Letter” words of Jesus. [Matthew, John, Revelation, 2 Peter – NIV]

      • hesedyahu says:

        You decided to post a poem as a response? Odd tactic. But a lot of it is meaningless, full of assumptions that aren’t grounded in truth.

        You make it seem as if Jesus was someone to be listened to. I see no adequate evidence of that.

        You claim that Matthew and John wrote something but the writings attributed to them didn’t say they wrote it. And I’ve got no reason to listen to Peter. Plus they accepted a dude who may have claimed to be messiah but the Hebrew Bible doesn’t agree with him. So the gospels say they were clueless about Jesus’ teachings and prophecies when he was alive and by accepting his claims, that proves they were clueless.

        So despite the poem, it’s just empty rhymes.

      • Dear hesedyahu
        You said regarding Jesus, QUOTE: “…the Hebrew Bible doesn’t agree with him…..”

        But you have not quoted a single word from Torah, Nabi’im, or Kethuvim – The Law, The Prophets, or The Writings. (AKA “the Tanakh….”)

        The word “Bible” means “Books” – PLURAL – in the original language, Greek. (It’s the plural of Biblion.) And the word “Bible” doesn’t appear anywhere in the Hebrew Scriptures (the Tanakh.)

        What are you talking about, specifically?

      • hesedyahu says:

        Actually the plural of biblion is biblia, not “bible.”

        And there’s no principle in the Jewish Bible that says “you can only refer to the tanach by a term it actually mentions.” In fact, even the tanach doesn’t call itself “tanakh” or “torah, neviim, kethuvim”. So that was not just a red herring you threw. It was an absurd point of irrelevance. The fact that you referred to the Tanach shows you know the body of work I’m referring to.

        If you’re gonna ask me a question, make it a sensible one.

      • Hesedyahu
        Thank you for confirming my point.
        Biblia in Greek means books, plural, and this word is the source of the term “Bible.” (In Spanish it’s identical, Biblia…..)

        All these terms, Bible, Hebrew Bible, Tanakh, don’t exist in the text itself. They are creations of men, who imagine these texts to be “one book”, which is isn’t.
        It’s a collection of writings.
        The “Tanakh” is in 3 different sections, in order of priority, authority and importance.
        That’s whey Chronicles got booted down to the “Writings” /Kethuvim section, since it’s less accurate, rather than being in the Prophets section with Kings….

      • hesedyahu says:

        I didn’t confirm your point. Your point was that bible is the plural of biblion. It isn’t. That’s what I corrected. By changing your point and then claiming I confirmed that point only shows you’re trying to win an argument.

        What you said next makes little sense. If men call it “books,” then that means they know it’s comprised of multiple books. You saying that undermines your claim that they think it’s one book.

        And the idea that Chronicles got “booted down” implies that it used to be in another section. That’s just a baseless claim. And that it was moved due to being more inaccurate is another baseless claim or speculation.

        Now understand this! This is a blog about leaving Jesus. You posted a worthless poem promoting Jesus. That’s what I responded to because it had limited relevance to this blog. Now you’re going further afield to win a point I care little about as it has little relevance or importance. If you carry on, I’ll most likely ignore it or remove it unless it is relevant.

      • Hesedyahu,
        Which “jesus” are you leaving?
        If you are leaving the false “christ” of Paul the Pharisee, the phony self-appointed “apostle to the gentiles” who falsely claimed that Jesus “abolished the law”, then I agree with you.

        The Jesus I follow came to fulfill the Torah and the Prophets, not to abolish them. And 2 or 3 Jewish witnesses testified about him.

        You know that Kings in the Nabi’im and Chronicles is in the Kethuvim, even though they cover a lot of the same material.

      • hesedyahu says:

        I reject both the Jesus of Paul and your Jesus too. Both of them failed and didn’t fulfil Torah or the Prophets. As you claim your Jesus did, either provide one of strong compelling evidence (I don’t want a list or numerous, just one), or drop the subject. Three false witnesses isn’t evidence. Anonymous writings that were attributed to the disciples like the ones in the new testament aren’t evidence. Plus, those three witnesses didn’t witness him fulfil “the Torah and Prophets” or fulfil him being messiah. If you think they did or you have the clear evidence of him fulfilling prophecies that are clearly messianic then give the evidence.

        I’m ignoring the rest of what you said.

      • Hesedyahu
        Your characterization of the Gospels of Matthew Mark and John as “anonymous writings” was interesting.
        I believe that the Book of Genesis, “In the Beginning”, was recorded by Adam, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph primarily, with some others like Esau contributing – would you agree with that? If not, what is your view?

        Who wrote Judges, Samuel and Kings? It appears to be some anonymous authors…..

      • hesedyahu says:

        I asked you for evidence of your version of Jesus, that he fulfilled the Torah and the Prophets. Was I wrong to assume we both already accepted the truth of the Jewish Bible? I know we don’t agree on the veracity of the guys you put your trust in, such as your depiction of Jesus and the people you believe to have written the first and fourth gospel (maybe the second as well if you believe one version of its origin story, that Peter dictated it to Mark). So that’s why I asked for evidence. If you rejected Torah, then there could possibly be a reason for me to justify my position that they were true. But you don’t reject the Torah or the Prophets. So since we both accept that standard I have no reason to justify my position regarding the veracity of the books of the Jewish Bible.

        So do you have one piece of compelling explicit and clear evidence from the Jewish Bible that your version of Jesus fulfilled the Torah and the Prophets? I’ll reject lists of attempted evidence. If you don’t wish to provide that evidence, I’ll just drop the dialogue.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s