Challenge to Messianic Jews & Hebrew-Christians [to all christians]

source: http://www.jewsforhashem.com/ScriptureChallenge.html
– credit is given to leeannesmailbox@aol.com, who gives at least half of the credit to Rabbi Tovia Singer.

The Challenge: Simply & honestly answer these questions:

… WITHOUT taking anything out of context, mistranslating, or imposing a pre-conceived notion. (All chapter and verse numbers are according to Christian bibles.)

Why does the subject of 2 Sam. 7.14 “commit iniquity,” if, according to Hebrews 1.5, this is Jesus?

Why does the speaker in Psalms 41.4 say, “I have sinned against Thee,” if, according to John 13.18, this is Jesus?

Why does the speaker in Psalms 69.5 mention his “folly” and his “wrongs” if, according to John 15.25, John 2.17, Romans 15.3, and John 19.28, this is Jesus?

Why is the speaker in Psalms 69.31 (who we have already established is Jesus) declaring that praise and thanksgiving will please God better than a sacrifice??????? Of all places for Jesus to bring this up (which would be strange enough in any event), isn’t this the strangest, right when he’s on the cross??????

Why does God, in Jer. 31:29-30, make a point of stressing that “everyone will die for his own iniquity” – immediately before introducing the new covenant, whereby Jesus will die for everyone else’s iniquity? Isn’t that a rather strange way for the “tutor to lead us to Christ?”

When does the new covenant of Jer. 31:31 come into effect? If it was 2,000 years ago, why hasn’t the first 3/4 of verse 34 happened yet?

Why will there be sin sacrifices when the messiah comes, when the New Testament is adamant that there won’t be? (Hebrews 9:28; Heb. 10:10,12,14,18; Ezekiel 3:18,19,21,22,25; Ezek.44: 27, 29; Ezek. 45:17,20,22,23,25)

Why is Torah law going forth from Zion in the messianic age, in the sight of all the nations of the world, instead of Jesus, if the law is a curse and Jesus has fulfilled and replaced it? (Isaiah 2.3, Micah 4.2)

Why are the Jews keeping (DOING) the Torah law in the messianic age, if it is a curse and Jesus has fulfilled and replaced it? (Ezek. 37.24)

Why is no one who is uncircumcised IN THE FLESH allowed to enter the temple in the messianic age, if “neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything,” according to Paul? (Gal.5.6, Ezek. 44.7) Whose opinion should I trust, Paul’s or God’s?

Why does “forever” have an expiration date in Christianity? (Romans 10.4; Ps. 119: 44, 111, 152, 160, 172, 142; Deut. 29.29)

How can Jesus be qualified to be the messiah through Davidic lineage if he did not have a human father? Can the “Holy Spirit” be of the seed of David?

How can Jesus be qualified to be the messiah through Davidic lineage, even through Joseph, if Joseph came through the cursed line of Jeconiah? (Jer. 22:28-30, Matt. 1.11,12)

How can Jesus be qualified to be the messiah through Davidic lineage, even through Mary, if she came from Nathan, the wrong son of David, as well as from the cursed line? (Luke 3:31, 1 Chron. 22:9,10, Luke 3:27)

How could both Matthew’s and Luke’s genealogies be correct, and divinely inspired, even if they are of two different people, if they diverge (at Nathan and Solomon) and then come back together (at Shealtiel)? How can two brothers have the same grandchildren???

Why don’t the genealogies in the New Testament agree with each other, or with 1 Chronicles 3, which came first and CANNOT be incorrect?

Why is Paul so anxious for you to not study the genealogies? (1 Tim.1:4, Titus 3:9-11)

Why is Hebrews 8.9 wrong about what God said in Jer. 31.32?

Why is Hebrews 10.5 wrong about what God said in Psalm 40.6?

Why is 2 Corinthians 3 wrong about what God said in Exodus 34.29-35?

Why is John 19.37 wrong about what God said in Zech 12.10?

Why are Romans 9.33 and 2 Pet. 2.8 wrong about what God said in Isaiah 28.16?

Why is Romans 10.6-8 wrong about what God said in Deut. 30.12-14? Why does it leave out Deut. 30.11, and the last half of verses 12, 13, and 14???

Why is Romans 11:26-27 wrong about what God said in Isaiah 59:20-21?

Why is Matt. 12.21 wrong about what God said in Isaiah 42.4? Why does he leave out what it really says – “He will not be disheartened or crushed until he has established justice in the earth”?

Why is Matt. 1.12 wrong about what God said in 1 Chron. 3.19?

Why is Matt. 2.6 wrong about what God said in Micah 5.2?

Why is Luke 4:18-19 wrong about what God said in Isaiah 61:1-2?

In Romans 9:24-26, why does Paul leave out the first part of Hosea 1.10, which tells us that the verses he is quoting (the second half of Hosea 1.10, and Hosea 2.23), refer to the sons of Israel?

Why does Matt. 2.15 leave out the first half of Hosea 11.1, which says that Israel is God’s son?

Where in the Hebrew scriptures is the verse, “And he shall be called a Nazarene,” quoted in Matthew 2.23?

How can it be possible that the holy and inspired men of the New Testament were so ignorant of the Hebrew scriptures?

Why doesn’t Jesus himself know his own scripture, if he’s God and he wrote it? (Math. 23.35; Zech 1.1,2; 2 Chron 24.20,21)

Why is Jesus wrong in Math. 5.43 about what God said in Lev. 19.18?

Why does Jesus change God’s law (Math. 5.32, Luke 16.18 – declaring every legally divorced woman an adulteress, and every man married to a legally divorced woman an adulterer), if “I did not come to abolish the law,” and “whoever annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven?” (Math. 5.17,19)

Why do most Christian translators lie about what God said in Hosea 14.2, and change His words, “take away all iniquity… that we may present our lips as bulls” (demonstrating that prayer substitutes for sacrifice) to “… the fruit of our lips?”

Why do Christians never mention verses like Hosea 14.2 or 1 Kings 8:44-52 or 2 Sam 12:13 or Lev. 5:11-13 or Ps. 32.5 or Isaiah 6.6-7 which demonstrate that one does not need a blood sacrifice to have their sins forgiven, or verses like Proverbs 21.3 or Psalms 40.6 or Hosea 6.6 or Psalms 69:30-31 or 1 Sam. 15.22 which say clearly that God actually PREFERS other methods of atonement to blood sacrifice, or Jeremiah 7:22-23 which goes so far as to say that God NEVER EVEN COMMANDED US ABOUT SACRIFICES???

Why are there numerous stories in the torah of people who sinned, and were forgiven through prayer and repentance – WITHOUT A SACRIFICE, such as David in 2 Sam 12:13, or the city of Nineveh in Jonah – and not a single story, ever, of someone who sinned and gave a sacrifice in order to be forgiven?

How can Jesus be both the high priest (per Paul in Hebrews), who comes from the tribe of Levi, and the messiah, who comes from the tribe of Judah?

How can Jesus be the Passover lamb for the gentiles, especially the uncircumcised, if outsiders were forbidden to partake of it? (Ex. 12:43,45,48)

Why is the New Testament so concerned about the laws of the paschal lamb when it comes to the 2nd half of Ex. 12.46 (see Jn. 19.36), but not at all concerned with these laws when it comes to Ex. 12: 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,44, the first half of 46, or 48?

What good is Jesus as a sin sacrifice to the intentional sinner, since (with one exception, Lev. 6.2,3) the sin sacrifices were only for the unintentional sinner? (Lev. 4: 2,13,22,27; 5:15,18)

How can Zech. 12.10 be referring to Jesus’ crucifixion, as John 19.37 says it is, when Zechariah is clearly describing an end-time apocalyptic war that has not yet taken place?

How can Zechariah be making a “dual” prophecy, when according to the Christians, this passage refers to God being pierced? Is he going to be pierced again when he returns in glory?

When was the last supper – the seder night (the first night of passover) or the night before? (Matt. 26.17-19, Mark 14.12-16, Luke 14.7-15, John 13.1-2)

When did Jesus die – the first day of Passover or the day before? (Matt. 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, John 18.28, 19.14)

Why did God, in Jer. 31.16, tell Rachel that her children would return, if He was referring to the dead children in Matthew 2.16? Were they going to come back to life?

Why are the nations putting their hands on their mouth in Micah 7.16, much like in Isaiah 52.15? What is it that they’re seeing and being ashamed of?

Why did the church put an unnatural chapter break between Isaiah 52.15 and 53.1?

Why did the Christian translators remove the two plural references to the servant in Isaiah 53.8 and 9 and replace them with a singular form?

Why does the servant in Isaiah 53.10 have physical children (“zera”/seed) if it refers to Jesus?

If “zera” really means spiritual children in Is. 53, why do all Christians agree it means physical offspring in every other place in the bible that it is used to refer to people?

If “zera”/seed really means spiritual children, which ONE of the world’s Christians is the true child of Jesus, since according to Paul in Gal. 3.16, “seed” refers to only one person?

Why are there many clear prophecies which state that Israel is despised and afflicted, but none which say this about the messiah?

Why is the automatic Christian response to the problems of Isaiah 53 ALWAYS to quote the rabbis they otherwise despise and mock and whose writings they don’t believe in, that Jesus berated and Paul called “men who turn away from the truth” (Titus 1.14)?

Why did the disciples not understand what Jesus was talking about in Luke 18:31-34 and Mark 9:32, if it was always common knowledge among the Jews that the messiah was to suffer, die, and rise from the dead?

Why did Jesus make predictions that didn’t come true, if that’s a sure sign of a false prophet? (Math. 16:38, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27, Deut. 18:20-22)?

Why does God the Father know something Jesus doesn’t know (Mark 13.32) if Jesus IS the Everlasting Father, and the Mighty God, according to Isaiah 9.6?

Why do the writers of the New Testament translate the word “moshiach” correctly as “an anointed one” every time it appears in the Torah, except for in Daniel 9?

Why do the writers of the New Testament translate the word “ca’ari” correctly as “like a lion” every time it appears in the Torah, except for in Psalm 22.17?

Why do the writers of the New Testament translate the words “y’mei olom” correctly as “days of old” every time it appears in the Torah, except for in Micah 5.2?

Why do the writers of the New Testament translate the word “bar” correctly to “cleanliness” or “purity” every time it appears in the Torah, except for in Psalm 2.12? Why is it that 5 verses earlier King David knew the correct word for “son,” but not in verse 12?

Why don’t the writers of the New Testament translate “ha’almah” as “virgin” in Proverbs 30.19, if that’s what it means? (What the four “ways” in vs. 19 have in common is that they leave no trace, as evidenced by vs. 20 that follows.)

Why did the Septuagint authors use “parthenos” in Genesis to describe Dina who had just been raped, if it means virgin according to messianic authorities?

If Isaiah 7.14 refers to the virgin birth of Jesus, via “dual prophecy” (since it obviously can’t refer to him via the context), then whose was the other virgin birth that occurred at the time of the prophecy?

* Why are there numerous prophecies about gentiles bowing and apologizing to the Jews in the last days, and admitting they (the gentiles) have been wrong, and not a single prophecy the other way around – of the Jews apologizing to the gentiles – if it is indeed the Jews who are wrong?

* Why are we commanded NOWHERE in the Jewish scriptures to believe in the messiah when he comes, if our salvation depends on it?

* Why do all the prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled deal only with the PERSON of the messiah, which the Torah barely mentions, and have nothing to with the ACCOMPLISHMENTS of the messiah, which the Torah is very specific about?

* Why is it that all of the prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled are all things that are of no practical advantage to anyone, and do nothing to improve the quality of anyone’s life, while all of the prophecies that he did NOT yet fulfill are all things that will be of tremendous benefit to every individual on the planet, and all of mankind as a whole? (For example, how does a virgin birth that happened 2000 years ago, or Jesus’ being thirsty and being offered vinegar, or being born in Bethlehem, or being killed with a robber, or riding on a donkey, etc… help me out at all? How do any of these “fulfillments” solve a single problem in my life, or anyone’s? Yet, on the other hand, when there is world peace, and all the evil people are gone, and all the sick are healed, etc… now THERE are some messianic prophecies we can surely use. )

* Why is it that all of the prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled are all things that CANNOT BE PROVEN, while all of the prophecies that Jesus did NOT yet fulfill, on the other hand, are all things that COULD NOT BE DENIED IF HE HAD fulfilled them – even just ONE of them?

* Why is it that the ONLY way to fit Jesus into the torah’s messianic prophecies is through the use of extreme force? Why is one or more of the following methods ALWAYS required? 1) taking verses out of context, 2) mistranslating, 3) placing a 2,000 year gap (at least) in the middle of a verse – totally unjustified by the context – i.e. sweeping any failure of Jesus to fulfill the scriptures under the rug of the 2nd coming, or 4) making verses up? Why can’t the torah ever just ONCE mention Jesus clearly, if it’s so important that we believe in him?

ARE ALL OF THE ABOVE FACTS JUST TREMENDOUS, AMAZING, UNBELIEVABLE COINCIDENCES???????

If God changed his mind about so many crucial things He said in the Torah, as demonstrated above, and now wants us to believe in Jesus, why didn’t he have the decency to come down to ALL of us, and endorse Jesus in person to make it clear to us, as he came down to all 3 million of us on Mt. Sinai to endorse Moses, to make sure we would believe in the Torah forever? (Ex. 19:9.11,17, Ex. 24.17)

Why does God break one of His own commandments, “You shall not place a stumbling block before the blind” (Lev. 19.14), since according to 2 Cor. 3.14 and 4.4 I am blind, and according to Rom. 9.32, 1 Peter 2.8, and 1 Cor 1.23, the above challenges are all part of “a stumbling stone?”

Why does God trick us, and present us with such tremendous difficulties as the above questions, and then throw us into hell for rejecting an apparent false god, who’s really not false, if “God our Savior desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth?” (1 Tim. 2.4)

Why is the Christian God such a sadist? And why do Christians expect Jews [or any person – my addition, Hesediah] to want to embrace such a God?

About hesedyahu

I'm a gentile living in UK, a person who has chosen to take upon himself the responsibility God has given to all gentiles. God is the greatest aspect of my life and He has blessed me with a family. I used to be a christian, but I learnt the errors of my ways. I love music. I love to play it on the instruments I can play, I love to close my eyes and feel the groove of it. I wrote my songs when I was single and not so happy and since I've been married, I haven't written as much. I guess that shows how happy and blessed I am. What else is there?
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16 Responses to Challenge to Messianic Jews & Hebrew-Christians [to all christians]

  1. Ben Marquez says:

    In the first place; your many why’s may seem valid at first. But scripture needs to be interpreted with scripture. Also in so doing, we need to remember that the whole of the Bible was written in the ancient Aramaic and Hebrew languages. Many today would have us believe that the ancient Greek is the original text of the New Testament. Having said that; the reading of Torah does not blind; nor does the reading of the Renewed Covenant bring Grace. In each case, the reader must turn to Master YHWH with their hearts to remove the veil. In other words, we cause ourselves to stumble and to not see because we search for the mystical and the miraculous signs in order to believe. Remember also that haSatan will always blind the reader, the one that hears, so that they might not believe. To all of your why’s there is an answer. We can not, and should not ever read scripture without reading whole chapters. Here is where many have taken certain verses and used them to build denominations, or to confuse, and even to claim that it is a fallacy. To all of your questions I feel I would give you the answers you seek. But for now this might be enough. May Elohim, shed the Light of His Ruach haKodesh and give understanding as you seek His TRUTH>

  2. James Wood says:

    Although I did not post this article I could not wait to post a short response. I am the author of Leaving Jesus and one of the things that I was sure to do when I wrote my book was to convey the principle of proper context. In my book you will find that I do at times use entire chapters to establish the context of the Scriptures being examined. IT is the whole purpose of this blog to stress context.

    Your comment starts out it seems that you are going to make a specific point bout the questions presented but you fail to do so. You make a general statement without ever answering any of the questions presented.

    I find your statement about haSatan puzzling. First, your blanket statement about him/she/it always blinding the reader as being ludicrous. If this were true one could never read and understand the scriptures. Second, it appears that your concept of haSatan is not based on Tanach Scriptures. HaSatan is not a fallen angel according to Tanach as presented in Christian mythology.

  3. peter says:

    i am not an expert in interpreting the bible and i cannot get into details by answering any of the questions -i haven’t even read all of them, since the purpose is clear from the start- but i can answer by saying that for someone that does not know the Scriptures/Torah as well as the author of these questions, i can write probably just as many questions i have about other passages in the Old Testament not related to Jesus at all. does that make the Bible invalid?
    to me it is uncontested the fact that Jesus was born, lived and died on the cross, as it is written in the New Testament. weather He is your expected Messiah or not, that is not of practical value for me, as a christian. what is monumental to me is that He died for my sins -and yours- and rose from the dead, so i could have eternal life. you may say that i cannot prove that, but nothing spiritual can be proven through the physical. He also did something that no other human creature can do, by changing my life completely when He came to me in a dream and told me that i will be born again, even though i was not a believer at that time and i had no idea how He looked like, still, i knew it was Jesus right away.
    you say something about prophesies that He fulfilled and that they are not practical. would you admit that the Temple’s destruction is one of those or not? because if it is, that alone turned all your tradition and fulfillment of the law upside down: Yom Kippur, the most important jewish holiday, cannot be celebrated anymore.

    • hesedyahu says:

      So let me get this straight. You essentially admit your ignorance about the matters involved in the questions above and your ignorance of the Jewish Bible; you admit that with such ignorance you could “question” the old testament, thus undermining the basis of your own christian faith; you say that the whole messiah question is irrelevant to you as a “christian”, a word which means messiah follower (how contradictory!!!), because what matters for you is that Jesus died for you, even though you pled ignorance of the Jewish Bible, the alleged basis of Jesus’ identity, at the beginning of your response. You even go as far as to say Jesus’ death as some sort of sacrifice is unprovable. And then you say you had a dream and some stranger came to you who didn’t identify himself, and without that outspoken self-identification from this dream-stranger, you assumed not only that this dream had something to do with reality, but you also imposed the identity that you wanted on a stranger that didn’t even clearly identify himself.

      I’m sorry, but you’ve essentially said you don’t know what you’re talking about and you want to cling to your ignorant imagination. So why explain anything to someone who has already admitted that he is committed to his ignorance?

      Wisdom calls out outside saying how long will the simple-minded love naivete and fools hate knowledge? (read proverbs 1) Find knowledge, learn God’s law in the Jewish Bible, before you make yourself out to be a fool. I’m not saying you are a fool, but your words neither make you or your “jesus” look good.

      • peter says:

        i am everything you accuse me of, but i also predicted your response; not very original of me, since anybody could’ve done it. i also know that even if Jesus Himself would appear to you -like He did with Saul- you would still deny His existence and try to convince Him that you are right.
        i, on the other hand, received the baptism with water at 30 and later on the baptism in the Holly Spirit, i speak in tongues and i can cast out demons in His name, gifts promised in Mark 16:17 to those that believe in Him.
        until you can do the same, please do not insult me with another nasty reply! i’ll pray for you! pg

      • hesedyahu says:

        The problem with Jesus is not his existence. You’re right, for him to appear to me would mean nothing. Why? Because I am subject to a Higher Power, which is God, as He revealed Himself in the Jewish Bible, especially the Torah of Moses. It is that standard that renders Jesus irrelevant: not a proper messiah-candidate as he fulfil none of the clear messianic prophecies in the Jewish Bible; not a candidate to be God by the very fact that he was human and that his mode of existence contradicts how God revealed Himself is the Jewish Bible; and definitely not a substitutionary sacrifice for humanity as his death contradicts every main principle about offerings in the Torah and the Jewish Bible. For me to put any ounce of trust in him without the backing of clear words of God, the Jewish Bible – not type/antitype, not allegory, not “spiritual” meanings without textual context and grammatical content – would be an insult to truth and an insult to God.

        If you take the very fact that I reply as an insult, then that is your choice. I only ask that you actually follow King David’s example as seen in Psalm 19 and 119: learn and know the foundation, God’s Law, first in order that you can make informed decisions about who you choose to follow. Go in peace.

      • peter says:

        i was not going to reply but this is too easy! i also said to myself that nobody comes into my life by their own will but because my Abba in heaven sends them to me. why? they may turn out to be my brothers -or my sisters- one day. even if it may sound weird to you, in some ways you are like my when i was in the dark and did not know God, but i was blessed to find out the love He’s got for us and He revieled Himself to me in the physical aspect, just the way i was looking for Him at that time.
        to be continued…

      • peter says:

        sorry! i meat to say that an insult was the tone in your first reply.
        i found this somewhere “the mind would rather be right than alive”. according to your own confession, if you were put in the same situation as Saul was when he met Jesus, you would act differently. and that’s not because you cannot read in your Torah hundreds of references about Him but because you would rather die than be wrong. this theory can also apply to myself, you can say, but at least my choice in the matter comes with eternal life after i die and if i’m wrong i have nothing to lose. in your case, i’d say it’s the wrong thing to be wrong about; do you agree? i have good news for you though: you still can accept Jesus in your life and be saved. you can find out afterwords if He is yous Anointed One or not. remember!: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” Jesus said that and He loves you.
        i have a question for you: as far as you know, if Jesus is not the expected Messiah and the end of the world comes tomorrow, is there a plan B?

      • James Wood says:

        The Torah is the only plan. There is no plan “A” or “B”, there is only Torah. Can you give me 5 (I won’t even say 10 or 300 as some claim exist) references that are not taken out of context that refers to Jesus (or even THE Messiah) and how belief or acceptance in him is needed for ANYTHING?

        This is the Challenge that is in my book, Leaving Jesus.

        I challenge anyone to show me where, in plain language in the Hebrew Bible, anyone is commanded when “the anointed person” comes that they must believe that he is anointed or they will not have eternal life.

        Go For it.

        The command to believe in the Messiah actually originates in the pages of the New Testament and is a new concept not based on the Hebrew Bible, whatsoever and must be rejected.

      • hesedyahu says:

        Peter, you are far from psychic, and you don’t know me or my life. So you don’t know why I would reject Jesus if I were in Saul’s position, you can only presume based on a lack of information. But me, having lived my own life and dealt with the Jesus issue, I know why I would reject Jesus to his face and it is because he doesn’t meet the standard set by the Jewish Bible. It’s about obeying first God’s law as given to Moses and not adding to it by creating novel religions (i.e., a religion based on some alleged messiah figure that abolishes God’s law), and secondly it’s about basing any acceptance on the Law and the Prophets. That’s why I can hold my hand in the face of Jesus and say “don’t go there”! There’s no clear reference to him in the Jewish Bible. And based on your previous responses, you didn’t know the Jewish Bible well enough to judge, so it’s almost like your viewpoint was distorted from the start.

        For me, it’s about truth and honour rather than reward. It’s about faithfulness to God based on his clear word as opposed to some unverifiable promise made by some dead guy or someone who usurped his message (Paul) and desecrated and violated the Jewish Bible to win those ignorant in the Jewish Bible. So here are my choices: Live according to a foundation I know to be established by God, i.e. the Torah; or accept the deception of a failed messiah candidate and his usurper. Excuse me if I choose truth over failure.

        To answer your question (which James Wood did very well), since Jesus was not the Messiah, and since you accept him as such, then that means you didn’t understand Plan A, so you wouldn’t know if there was any need for a Plan B. Just to let you know, as James has already said, there is no need for a Plan B due to your mistake with understanding Plan A, a plan which, based on your previous statements, you neither knew or understood before you accepted the unknown dream guy that you imposed the “Jesus” notion onto.

      • peter says:

        the Q & A game can go on and on; in the end, you and i will only go parallel: weather you believe or not -and by you not choosing to believe in Jesus, doesn’t make already a reality- i am speaking from a spiritual point of view and you only use your mind. like i said, i was an atheist once, not only denying Jesus, but also God, the Father and i’m sure it would be impossible to successfully convince “that guy” to believe in what i believe today and that is because God had to participate in revealing it to him-me of today; which He did later on.
        i’ll pray that He will do the same to you! hallelujah and God bless!

      • James Wood says:

        Peter
        Evidently if there is a “Q & A” game, you are not willing to play. You haven’t attempted to answer any of the posed questions probably because you see it futile to make an attempt being you would not want to come to the end embarrassing your religion and ultimately yourself.

        You can interpret that how you want but if I were you I would see it as “put up or shut up.”

        And by the way your statement about you having nothing to loose: reminds me of the man that takes a leap out of a ten story building while gulping down Strychnine hoping that maybe the poison will break his fall.

      • peter says:

        is that the best you got? i only respond to explain that, by saying that i have nothing to lose, i meant that, as a goi, your torah does nothing for me, in this life -its laws are not addressed to me- or in death -i know nothing about what will become of my soul after i die.
        the rest of the discussion is mute: you have no idea what a spiritual life is because you do not believe in the existence of the spirit. i also know that you cannot keep your law no matter how hard you try and also the fulfillment of your law through animal sacrifices is on hold right now, because you have no temple.

        ps: if there would be a Jewish DNA, would you voluntarily go to be tested to show everybody that your ancestors are from the tribes of Israel? i know i would: maybe…

      • James Wood says:

        YHVH is the spirit. He has always presented Himself that way… You sir, do not accept the Word of the YHVH. I think our conversation must end here.

  4. searchinmyroots says:

    Peter,

    I too changed my life around except I did it by reading G-d’s instructions and choosing to listen to Him.

    Read G-d’s instructions Peter, it’s a choice. Just like every person that changes their life around, it’s a choice they made, a commitment. Thee are many, many people on this earth who “chose the good”. Some are religious some are not. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddah’s, Hindu’s, you name it, they all can provide actual transforamtions of their lives. Oh, and even those who don’t follow any religion have done so.

    Just because you did it by believing in jc, doesn’t make it “the only way”.

    The Hebrew bible warns us about following one who performs miracles. If it goes against Torah, then we know it is false. Hey, that’s what G-d says, not me!

  5. tanakhstudent says:

    “is that the best you got? i only respond to explain that, by saying that i have nothing to lose, i meant that, as a goi, your torah does nothing for me, in this life -its laws are not addressed to me- or in death -i know nothing about what will become of my soul after i die.”

    Watching Christians flounder in denial is pitiful … I know, I used to be one, too.
    I’ll try to help his 6-month-old argument out, anyway. If the Torah does nothing for you, Peter, you’ve just admitted you don’t know anything about the Jesus you love. Otherwise your god’s own words would have stopped you from making such a faithless statement:

    “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” – Jesus, Matthew 5:17-18

    If you know nothing about what will become of your soul after you die, Peter, you’ve just admitted you don’t know anything about what Paul wrote about the Jesus you love. Otherwise Paul’s words would have stopped you from speaking foolishly:

    “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him … Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” – Paul, 1 Thessalonians 4:14, 17

    So, Peter, you don’t believe in the God of creation, because you reject His Torah. You don’t believe in Jesus, because you reject his words. You don’t believe in Paul, because you don’t know what he wrote. But at least you have “the existence of the spirit”, right? (Whatever spirit that would be) Just don’t lie about what you believe, dude, and you’re good.

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